Yesterday, in a Liverpool game against Sheffield United, I heard two English commentators say that Jürgen Klopp, the current Liverpool FC coach, from Germany, has turned Sadio Mané, from Senegal, into a great player.
Funny thing is, they never said that about Mo Salah. They’ve never said that about Firmino. Not that the last two are even comparable to the talents and exploits of Sadio Mane. Still, these pundits have certainly yet to say that about any other player at Liverpool. Neither would these two English commentators ever imagine the real point: That Sadio Mané has made Liverpool the best team.
The thing about the European Miracle is that it knows how to separate the African/Black for its specific “angelic correction.” In the social science, this kind of European disease, about attributing any “good” outcome about Africa and Africans to European direction and tutelage is called the “White Saviour Trope.”
It is so pervasive that the two commentators today had no idea they were engaging centuries old myths about their whiteness. Sadio Mané was great before he left Senegal. He was great before he joined Liverpool. No one from Barbaria can make Sadio Mané great. He was great already. That’s fact.
He was awesome in Southampton…Total nonsense.
Le talent est inné…mais bon, chacun peut dire ce qu’il veut. ..
Spot on. And no criticism of Ozil while Pogba is “lazy.”
Not true. I don’t think you watch a lot of Liverpool games. Klopp is known for buying players with potential and making them world class. This statement about Mane has been made about Salah, Firmino, Trent A-A, Andy Robertson, van Dijk, and Wijnaldum. So I cannot agree with you. Mane was a very good player at Southampton and a fantastic player at Salzburg. But was he shortlisted for a Balon D
I disagree. Sadio Mane (the argument should rather be made in fairness), has made Klopp look a good coach. Sadio Mane is a great player. Without Sadio Mane there will be no Liverpool in its current form.
Now you need to supply me with some examples of what you assert about your counterpoint; say about Ronaldo, or Messi. In order for us to advance to the second debate: That is, the media, and the media in particular sports media, is a characteristic medium where this kind of “white saviour trope” mentality prevails.
The main point here is Mane is great with or without Liverpool’s coach or system.
Liverpool without Mane doesn’t win this year’s premier league trophy.
I rest my case about such Africans repeating the rhetoric
Narmer Amenuti, such level of theoretical critical analysis is near zero on FB. Thanks for this refreshing education.??
The sad part is you will hear some Africans repeating that rhetoric
Absolutely, like parrots (like pets to their yt terrorists). Most of such Africans are bewitched!
Narmer, Yeah but the thing is, people say the same thing about van Dijk – that there is no Liverpool in its current form without van Dijk. Or Allison. Or Firmino. Or its attacking wing-backs TTA and Robertson. This should be your clue that this is about coaching and system rather than the “greatness” of any ONE player. Ronaldo has bounced around so it can’t be said of him, but it has been said that Guardiola made Messi the player he is. There is no shame in that. And I am not sure that it can be seriously claimed that Mane made Klopp “look good”. Klopp was a respected coach before he came to Liverpool with a unique, almost trade-mark playing style. I know you’re not a football person so please just Google gegenpressing. Others have started do it now, but that is really Klopps unique playing system. He successfully implemented in Germany by building the current Dortmund side, and now he has successfully repeated this system in England by building this Liverpool side. These are facts not in dispute. Klopps system is so revolutionary that Nigel Pearson is trying to implement it at Watford! Yes Watford! So to attribute the success of Liverpool to the greatness of Mane…well I really do not know. Seems a stretch to me. I love Mane but come on.
You really dont get it Kofi Brobbey.
I definitely don’t think you get it either.
Kofi Brobbey you claim that Klopp was all these great things before he met Mane, yet he achieved nothing of repute in European football before he met Mane. A monkey can do well in the German League. How many coaches have done so? Plenty.
Curiously though, Klopp’s first couple seasons in England were abysmal. There was even talk of sacking him. Until he met Mane. Yet, you sing for Klopp so much you forget that until he met Mane he was bordering on the SACK from Liverpool.
I find that parochial analysis quite wanting.
Kofi Brobbey I don’t think you understand the racial undertones of some of the statements.
Emmanuel Amevor, I don’t think he does. This language called English her??? We’ve been traumatized with it for so long. Still, even on the face of Kofi Brobbey’s argument, the pharisaism is clear: The making of people into great persons only happens in one direction. From Klopp to Mane. Never the other way round. You see? On the point of logic alone, it fails.
Narmer Amenuti the oppressor’s work is done. Hail all things white.
Emmanuel Amevor, You should read how fondly we speak of our colonial masters in our Ghanaian text books. FONDLY! We’ve been so traumatized (and I am not saying Kofi is) that every English sentence is correct and all other sentences wrong. You speak for the African and you are the agent of the Devil. Yt people are angelic. Trauma is something we have yet to deal with in Ghana. Real trauma.
Funny I made same remarks.
Emmanuel Amevor. No. Let me repeat my arguments, because really I do not believe I am the one with English challenges here as is being suggested above. Firstly @Emmanuel – I am not disputing that there are racial undertones in English commentary. I have heard English commentators make some egregiously racist remarks MANY times. I am just not persuaded that the remarks in question made here by the commentators about Mane are necessarily racist because 1) This statement about a coach making a particular player great has been made about white players, hispanic players, Asian players, etc – so how does one definitively conclude that the same statement when applied to an African player is racist? And 2) there is, in this case, some truth to them as I have explained above in detail. Playing in Klopp’s system has made Mane a world class player – look at his statistical progression from Salzburg to Southampton to Liverpool. You can’t reasonably dispute this. Secondly Narmer Amenuti, I have already said that Klopp built a team that has made his system successful. So without the players he has assembled, Klopp is will not succeed. Obviously!. How can you look at this argument and conclude that the greatness is only ONE way? Klopp is a coach. He is not a player! Clearly, without getting the right talent around him, he doesn’t win FIFA coach of the year. So yes, Mane has made Klopp great. But, my point is so has van Dijk, and Allison, and Firmino, and Salah! I am a proud African too, but you can’t just say that “Mane has made Klopp great” and leave it there! There is context here. Its easy to remove context and make anything racist. Its not hard to do. You know whats funny – just last month I had a similar discussion with an Algerian guy who claims that Salah is the one who is making Klopp great! Seriously guys, this thinking that you guys are “woke”, and that everybody who disagrees with you is some clueless, illogical, brainwashed, poorly educated idiot will not get you far. This is not how to engage people. Learn to be tolerant of the views of others without disparaging them. This particularly goes to others on this thread who I am not even going to bother to mention. I have nothing further to add. Happy New Year to you all.
Kofi Brobbey my brother it is not enough to say that you are a proud African. Please act like one. Talk is cheap (kasa wontor) So it is not only Narmer Amenuti, who thinks Mane made Klopp great, your Algerian friend thinks something similar too. We are reminded by the wise words of Neely Fuller Jr, author of ‘The United Independent Compensatory Code/System/Concept’ thus: ‘If you do not understand White Supremacy (Racism) – what it is, and how it works – everything else that you understand will only confuse you.’
Look Kofi Brobbey, I do my best to keep issues within context. My best is probably not good enough. However, you are not the only one who comments. I am obliged (and it is my policy) to reply to friends when they leave me a comment. It is a mistake to read my comments with others about subjects outside of the scope of the “you-and-I” discussion thread and imply that you are somehow being maligned.
More, I make general statements. General statements are useful since they make the point. You might be a seven-foot tall soldier living in a forest of five-feet men. By five-feet what I mean is that although you are seven-feet tall, your forest is only five feet. It doesn’t matter that you are taller than everyone else. Don’t take statements about Ghana, about Blacks, about whites, about groups of people to mean I speak about you in particular. If I say that the English language is used to traumatize Ghanaians, it does not necessarily imply that you are traumatized, or that you are doing the traumatizing. That is your first mistake.
Now, let me address you. In particular. I am happy to reply you. Again this is my policy. But it now seems to me, and correct me if I am wrong, that folks like yourself speak of tolerance and yet you run away from civil debates with your tail between your legs, shouting in the opposite direction about how intolerant the people who actually want to engage you really are. You are the one running away and blowing me a kiss of a “happy new year.”
You made to lousy points, which I must address: (1) You claim that the “statement about a coach making a particular player great has been made about white players, hispanic players, Asian players, etc.” I have asked for that evidence. I am yet to receive it. You are unaware that without evidence you are making stuff up. I gave you an instance from Liverpool’s game with Sheffield United yesterday, and I am yet to receive one instance from you. (2) And then you proceed without evidence that there’s some truth to Klopp being the angelic savior of Sadio Mane. Your evidence here is that Sadio Mane has progressed from good, to better, and best. Meanwhile, you clearly sidestep the mirrored implication that perhaps Klopp himself may have progressed from just good in Barbaria (Germany), to better to best (in England), when he met Mane.
In one instance you seem to agree that “Mane has made Klopp great” and then you proceed to qualify it with you can’t “leave it there! There is context here.” Which all go to show that when it comes to context, your mind works only in one way: the Angel is Klopp and he’s helped the African. Never the other way around. Which context remains my curious investigation: Which is, why you and many others think this context palatable while depressing, at the same time, the very ensuing parallel context that Sadio Mane is the Angel who has turned Klopp into something his fellow Barbarians (Germans) can admire.
Further, instead of keep your comments within context, you tread laboriously again into waters you know very little about by invoking the word “WOKE.” “This thinking that you guys are “woke?” Massa, you know nothing about “WOKE.” Again, here, you display a total lack of respect to African American culture and intellectual thought. You channel the Omaaba Insanity (the Obama Doctrine of respectability politics) to make a disparaging statement in a way that doesn’t look racist to you. But it is, no matter your ignorance. But I am here to inform you about mistake and beg you to apply yourself from ever invoking that racist doctrine.
Happy New Year to you too. Mine occurred earlier, on the 25th of December. When did yours happen?
Narmer Amenuti
Small problem with your “point” is Mane himself agrees he’s improved under Klopp.
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/…/liverpools-sadio-mane…
As do a host of present & former players:
https://www.liverpoolfc.com/…/313248-wijnaldum-klopp…
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/…/trent-alexander…
https://liverpooloffside.sbnation.com/…/mario-gotze…
Yes – the English press have a clear and obvious bias but pick the right anecdotes to make your point.
Dear Prince Ofori-Kuragu, In what world do you square your lack of English comprehension with your material ignorance? I said, and I have written, I disagree with the idea that Klopp made Mane great. I gave the instance that two commentators I heard during a Liverpool game with Sheffield United had reiterated that unnerving, yet stupid idea. I said, I disagreed. I have given reasons for my disagreement.
And then here you are, you proceed to provide me with more newspaper items of who else has said what these two commentators and almost all British Media believe. All this to show what, you say? That the jumentous and insidious idea that Klopp made Mane great which prevails in Euro-British Media is true because several European news outlets repeat it? Or that repetition is the sign of truth? Or that almost all European media disagrees with me, and so they are correct?
Which colonial missionary school did you also attend?
Narmer Amenuti Oh dear! A whole day to ponder on a response and you return with ad hominem? Speaks volumes…
If it really is “Klopp has made Mane great” that has left you bemused and my attempt at highlighting what Mane himself makes of that assertion unnerves you, I’ll impress upon you to revisit what it means to be a “thinker”.
Received wisdom in Football lexicon tends to make similes of “greatness” and consistency in performances, thus the argument you’re positing is more suited to being answered empirically as opposed to the pseudo-doctrinal cul-de-sac you have wandered into.
Pull out Sadio’s career statistics (assuming his own thoughts on whether Klopp has improved him carry little weight with you) and you’ll find his patchy form for his previous clubs has been ironed out since joining Liverpool and Klopp. Sadio’s game has not simply improved because of his own physical form (which by the way has ostensibly been improved by Kornmayer -Liverpool Fitness coach), it’s rather because he now plays in a counter-attacking and counter-pressing team that plays to his primary morphological strength – his speed. It is testament to line of thinking that other players who left Liverpool and Klopp’s other teams e.g. Coutinho, Gotze, Hummels are no longer able to reach the performance levels they did while playing in Klopp’s teams. His team’s way of playing have always been architected by Klopp mainly, Buvac and lately Lijnders and it follows that players employed into his playing system go on to achieve performance levels they had hitherto not achieved due to his tactical acumen and motivational skills.
Sadio Mane winning EPL “Player of the Month” in each year of the last 3 and being in the conversation regarding the Balon D’Or since joining Liverpool as well as improvements in his “disciplinary” side of the game and most other aspects of his game as compared to his days with Southampton all lay credence to the position that Klopp has tangibly contributed to making him great.
https://www.premierleague.com/players/6519/Sadio-Mané/stats
The trouble with “Klopp has made Salah great” and your perception of injustice from its seeming non-use is the simple fact that inconsistency has crept into Salah’s game again. He hasn’t reached the performance levels he reached in his first season under Klopp and is therefore not following the same trajectory Sadio is into greatness. Messi in contrast has performed consistently at a very high-level under 6 different coaches since emerging under Rijkaard and therefore cannot be categorised under the same nomenclature of performance measurement.
But alas, you don’t come across as a real football fan as much as you do come across as a “Fannon-phile” so this is our time wasted, isn’t it? ?
You nipidate about your nest like an infant looking for his mummies tits. Your kwashiorkor understanding of the English language, let alone the world you purport to live in, will not cease to amaze me. You are the reason I continue to insist that Africa’s educational systems ought to be predicated on local languages, not colonial speech. At this age, and you still struggle with simple language comprehension, lest the understanding of the theory of the matter at hand. No matter!
Narmer Amenuti ? Deary old me…I really should quit infecting this internet with my trivial guesswork on what contemporary bigotry is. Perhaps if I did not base my views on the received experiences of others…
It is hard to agree with you on these points .
If you watched Liverpool’s match ,I think you will no klopp has shaped his boys very well and currently sadio is his best attacking player .
Mane of Liverpool is far greater than mane of Southampton ..
Countihno and kan are example of two former Liverpool players who were doing great under klopp ,after they left Liverpool both of them are struggling.
Dortmund under klopp and today’s Dortmund is another example ..klopp HSS history of producing or improving players to greater ones
Pointless cheap shot!
TYPICAL RACIST WHITE SUPREMIST TRIPE! HE WAS GREAT BEFORE HE ARRIVED, AND THAT’S WHY THEY GOT HIM! THE BLACK PLAYERS HAVE MADE THE ENGLISH LEAGUES WHAT IT IS TODAY-AWESOME! READ “THE ACID TEST” BY CLYDE BEST TO SEE WHAT HE HAD TO GO THROUGH AS A FORERUNNER TO PAVE THE WAY FOR THE BROTHERS TO FOLLOW!
It’s amazing that there are Africans here who think that the issue raised is a matter of opinion or debate. We have too many idiots who refuse to read much. Thanks for commenting.
Narmer Amenuti … I hear you…As FB Does FB is. The point is being missed this not about the facts it about comentators who have not said the same about caucasions and other non melanated people apart from Alcabulans. Facts and truth in the face of caucasion previlage means nothing. That is the point.
It is sad that caucasian privilege (or more correctly, Barbarian Privilege) runs much deeper into certain African streams than I previously thought. Why do those who don’t read much, who don’t read beyond the first paragraph feel the need to be the loudest?
Narmer Amenuti Sad But true.